welcome back to the program. >> thank you. >> warner: so the fiscal cliff is now nearly upon us. does that alarm you or do you welcome it? >> it alarms me, but this is not a crisis that wasn't predicted at least ten years ago when the bush tax rates were first established. i think -- i remember a time when december was quiet in washington, d.c. because congress actually did its job and passed the budget by the beginning of of the fiscal year in october. so there this government by crisis, this budgeting at the last minute is a new thing and it's a real problem. >> warner: explain to us the tea party's view here. last week, when speaker boehner -- when house republicans,-- some of them-- revolted against his attempt they have to plan "b," tax on millionaires, many in the tea party-- at least that i read about and heard-- cheered him, cheered the revolt. why? >> oh, yeah, we did as well. the problem is that you can't get to real tax reform at the end of the day in a crisis and if barack obama-- who's the only man that can stop a massive tax increase on january 1-- wants to do that,